Oromis told Eragon that before the fall of the Rider's, young dragons would sometimes give their Eldunari to their Rider, just to impress them. What if Brom's Saphira did that? I think it would be cool for Eragon to talk to Saphira's namesake about Brom. She could tell him all kinds of things about what he was like when he was younger.


I dunno, this was just an idea I had in the middle of class one day.

Well if so how would he get it? Brom is dead he can't give it to him. I'm sure that if brom mentioned someting about Eldunari to Eragon before his death i'm sure that he would have remembered once Oromis mentioned it...If so maybe he would give it to Oromis to keep safe, but Oromis is dead.

I think it's an awesome theory...however, I just don't think it would happen.

yeah, that's probably what it is. or maybe saphira #1's eldunari is in the VoS.

Yeah, someone probably would, but another thing is that it wasn't shaped like a heart. CP described Glaedr's Eldunari as being heart shaped. And it's definitley to small, but Saphira1 was young when she was killed, so it probably won't be half as big as Glaedr's. I agree with sjlsscsdoo, it's probably in the VoS. But then again, ruben-elda, your idea of Galbatorix possessing it is most likely, and also very amusing. (Dragons tend to take on the personality traits of their Riders, so imagine Galby trying to break Saphira1's spirit to do his bidding like he did Shruikan and the other Eldunari. )

OK, ummmm two things- 1) Glaedr's Eldunari was round not heart shaped, and 2) Saphira I obviously didn't give up her Eldunari because it said that she was dead (Brom went insane at her death). Brom would have spent his entire life trying to save Saphira Galbatorix if she was still alive. And, before someone tries to say that Brom might not have know that she was still alive, I will just say that the connection between rider and dragon is certainly strong enough to know if your partner was dead.

That's kind of what I just said. She didn't "Give up her Eldunari" kind of means that she didn't take refuge in it.

@ruben-elda: i know, it is amazing we agree again. maybe morzan took saphira's eldunari and when brom killed morzan he couldn't get the location so he went insane

idk, i was just thinking...


but maybe since brom and morzan were "friends", maybe morzan did it while brom wasn't paying attention....but then again, saphira would have had to give it up and i don't she would've doen that

I don't think galby has saphira 1's HoH
I just don't believe that
there is no evedence pointed there

yeah, but there's still speculation

I agree with Elva. Obviously you can speculate about whatever you want, but I cant think of anything that would make me think that any part of Saphira I is still alive. I just think that if it were then Brom would have known and rescued her at all costs.

well maybe he went so insane he forgot what saphira felt like

But doesn't the Rider have to be touching the Eldunari to sense the dragon's presence? I know that's the only way Eragon could feel Glaedr. I also know it's possible that the dragon's actual Rider might not have to touch it's Eldunari to sense it, but we don't know that for sure. So it's possible that she gave it up and Brom never knew (for whatever reason) or she gave it up and Brom knew, but he was unable to save it when Galbatorix took over.

I think the second idea is quite possible actually. For all we know, the location of the Eldunari might have been somewhere high up, that you could only reach by riding on a dragon. So when she died, Brom didn't have a way to get there before Galbatorix stole all of the Eldunari.

yeah, i like your second idea. i don't know why she would give it up though

I dont think that any part of the 1st Saphira is still alive. A dragon tells her/his rider before doing this. And Brom would have told it Oromis but he never said anithink about that to Eragon

maybe oromis didn't want eragon to know that...idk.

So lets wait 4 the 4th book maybe we will get some answers:-)

nah, cp's gonna take to long to do it

Thnx, sjlsscsdoo! Maybe Saphira1 didn't tell Brom because she thought it would hurt him more to be able to talk to her, but not touch her or technically even see her. (If someone you loved more than life itself died, would you want them to tell you about an object they left behind that would make it possible to talk to them, if not see or touch them?)

And a dragon doesn't HAVE to do anything, she could have done it and simply not told Brom for some reason. We don't know what this reason is, but if my theory is correct, we could find out.

Besides, if you don't like the idea of her having left her Eldunari behind, look at it this way. If she did, it would make it possible for Eragon to learn more about his father and possibly some other things that Glaedr and Oromis might not have known.

yes, which is why i want it to still be out there, maybe even in the VoS

I think Saphira1 could tell eragon lots of new words of the old speach or everythink about his parents

Exactly, from what we know, Eragon seems to be a lot like Brom when he was his age, and Eragon is always getting into some sort of situation or another. Brom and Saphira1 might have discovered something enormously important and didn't tell Oromis and Glaedr. (Either because they thought they'd get in trouble, or they just didn't know how important it was.) It's a long shot, I know, but not that far-fetched if you think about it.

he may have not had the chance to. but i think it would important for saphira to meet her namesake

Is there a particular reason why the idea of Saphira1's Eldunari existing seems to bug you, ruben? jk

Oromis and Glaedr told Eragon that sometimes young dragon's gave up their Eldunari to impress their Riders or other dragons. That's reason enough for me to think that it's entirely possible that Saphira1 is still "alive". Why? Because she was young when she died, possibly young enough to have given up her Eldunari to Brom.

you know that's different in alagaesia. and it would be harder to meet eragon's namesake, because elves don't have eldunari

Well, if she gave it to Brom, he probably put it in the VoS. (Assuming that the VoS is where the Eldunari were kept.) And I'm betting that that's exactly what it is, because a dragon's Eldunari basically contains their soul. So, Vault of SOULS could be the location of the Eldunari.

exactly. that was my answer to that question. or maybe brom just hid it somewhere where only a dragon could get too

True, but then how would he get up there to hide it?
I just had a sudden thought (yes, I know, nobody smelled burning rubber)... I'm sure somebody has said this before, but whatever...What if the VoS is in the Spine? That would explain why half of Galby's army went missing, because they didn't know how to protect themselves from the spells protecting IT.

(I really have the sneaking suspicion that somebody already thought this, but I can't remember who it was.)

uh, he used saphira before she died


well it wasn't me who said it

Yes, but before the Rider's fell, there wouldn't be a need for him to hide it anywhere else. So he probably hid it again AFTER she died.

Lol, one person down, quite a few more to go.

She probably wanted him to. If he were caught carrying her Eldunari around, Galbatorix would know where to find him, and he would have stopped at nothing to kill him. (He was kind of bent on destroying all other Riders but himself and the Forsworn at that moment in history.)

Ah, but when she died, he didn't go straight to Carvahall did he? He was busy doing all sorts of dangerous things to bring down Galbatorix and the Forsworn. So she didn't want to tag along, because it would be to easy for the wrong person to find Brom carrying her around, therefore putting his life in danger. Somehow she convinced (or probably MADE) him hide her somewhere safe. (Actually, Brom might have told Saphira2 where he hid her Eldunari after the Urgal disaster outside Teirm.)

yeah, it's probably somewhere accesible only by flying

but he knew it wouldn't be for long

cuz he knew galby would eventually find him

i'm just saying he wouldn't keep her eldunari with him for liability reasons in case something happened

maybe brom just didn't get a chance to tell saphira

maybe she does know where it is then, but wants to keep it a secret until this is all over

yeah, but it's nice to think that maybe saphira could meet eragon's father's dragon

Yeah, very nice to think but a bit distracting

distracting in what way?


i wonder how much saphira #1 could tell saphira

about herself. about brom. about things glaedr didn't know about.

its possible that this is one of the things brom told saphira.it might be how brom but so much energy in his ring!

@ruben: saphira 1 also lived during a different time than glaedr for a while, she might know stuff about that too which might help eragon

ya and if her eldunari was out of her, either galby would have it, which brom would have gone to save no matter the cost, or eragon would now have it, and since neither happened, i think her eldunari is dead

Can a Eldunari be "dead"?
If Galby had it, he could keep it a secret, althrough unlikely, most likely, its been hidden

if saphira 1 had disgorged her eldunari, then brom would have known. i think she never disgorged it, or else brom would have gone crazy trying to find it.

But that was coz of the sadness that she had died

Yeah, he might have been driven even crazier by the fact that he couldn't find it. Then he might have realized she hid it for a reason or something, so he started to come back to his senses.

how do you knoe saphira1 disgorged her eldunari?

she might have disgorged it as she was dying

and then brom would have delivered it to oromis, or just told eragon not to ever lose it or let it break, without telling him all about it. but i think saphira 1's eldunari was never disgorged, and that no one has her.

Then Aren would not have as much energy in it as it does, it is too small, and a broken eldunari probably cant hold as much energy anymore.

Unless Saphira1 did disgorge it, but became sad after a while because she couldn't move on her own or fly, so she asked Brom to break it. If she was sad I think Brom would do anything to help her, even if it meant destroying the only thing he had left of her. (Or she could have used his true name and forced him to do it.) He could have kept a shard of it and had it set in a ring.

I dunno, Aren is a possibility, but I'm not sure. I'm almost positive though that her Eldunari (or a piece of it) is there somewhere.

well we dont know a lot about eldunaris, so i really dont know, but i dont think saphira1 ever disgorged her eldunari, and it was said somewhere that saphira1 died in the battle against the forsworn, not because her eldunari breaks.

i just had and idea, what if she was stabbed through her heart of hearts before her mind transferred into it, but didnt die?? what would happen?

I dunno what would happen, I guess it would just transfer part of her energy and memories into one or all of the shards.

And where it says she died in battle could just mean her body. It doesn't necessarily mean her heart of hearts was destroyed as well.

i think that her HoH was never disgorged because we would probably know about that by now. (wow, i think this is the longest we've stayed on topic for a while. . .)

Hmmm... Does it say in Brisingr that a dragon HAS to disgorge its Eldunari to put their consciousness inside it? Because if a dragon could go inside it, but not disgorge it, then she could have fled to it before her body died. She wouldn't have had time to disgorge it though, so Brom wouldn't have known about it. It was said earlier that to commune with an Eldunari you have to have physical contact with it. If Brom didn't know it about it, then he wouldn't have been looking for it and he would have thought she was truly dead.

the only thing that is effected by when they transfer into it is its size, if he did it while young it wouldnt have been so big. i dont think that saphira one transferred into it because, when eragon had glaedr's, he could hear oromis and gleadr talking with their mind, so brom would have still known.

But that was before Oromis died and Glaedr's body died. Not to mention Eragon had to touch the Eldunari to enter Glaedr's mind. I think the same would go for a dragon whose body died, but their rider didn't. The Rider would have to touch their dragon's eldunari to talk to them.

in brisingr, in Gilead, oromis and glaedr were talking to eachother, without an eldunari present. if a dragon died, the only way would be to touch it or extend your mind towards it, and try to have it allow you into its mind.

BUT, a dragon has to transfer, b4 they die, or their eldunari dies too, so if saphira 1 did transfer, brom would have known for those very few seconds before she died, and then he could go get the eldunari, which he would have then given to eragon before he died, without telling him what it was, but just to keep it super safe.

I think that Saphira 1's Eldunari was still in her when she died. therefore most likely it wouldn't have survived her death.

if she had transferred, galby would have it and brom would have gone crazy saving it, eragon would have it, oromis would have had it, and then given it to eragon who would then have it.

but why have the yawe on it? we know he is elf friend, but i dont think he would appreciate a tattoo on his dragons smashed eldunari, and i dont think she would disgorge it, then purposefully smash it. thats why i think she didnt do that.

maybe. if a broken eldunari could still hold the energy it used to be able to, it would only hold a fraction of what it used to, but that would explain why the ring had so much energy in it, saphira 1 could have been really old b4 she died.

It could be, I mean in Brisingr he wonders if it is an eldunari but then discards that idea when he finds no conciousness

No, Saphira1 wasn't really old when she died. When Brom was telling Eragon his story right before he died, he specifically said his young dragon. Dragons have enormous amounts of energy when they're young. It has something to do with them being creatures of magic. And it's also possible that Saphira1 is inside Aren, but she shielded herself when Eragon probed the ring.

I just remembered something. When Brom gave the ring to Jeod to send with his message, he threatened to kill the messenger guy if he lost it. Maybe because it's a piece of Saphira1?