Last visit was: less than a minute ago It is currently February 9th, 2019, 12:56 pm

All times are UTC





 [ 40 posts ] 
 Oromis's Sword 
Author Message
Dragon Egg Carrier
Dragon Egg Carrier

Joined: May 30th, 2006, 10:08 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Post Oromis's Sword
Hey, anyone here have any idea what Oromis's sword means? It is something like Naegling. It doesn't say in the pronounciation guide and I was hoping on of you guys knew.

_________________
Ladies and gentalmen... GIVE IT UP FOR VANILLA ICE!!!!!!!!

Vanilla Ice is in the house yo!


June 1st, 2006, 10:55 am Profile
DragonRider
DragonRider
User avatar

Joined: March 10th, 2006, 11:55 pm
Posts: 997
Gender: Girl
Post 
no clue.....mabye it means something like "dragonmaster" or something

_________________
http://www.booksnmore.co.nr <---Join or die..bwahahaha


June 1st, 2006, 4:12 pm Profile
BAD EMAIL
BAD EMAIL

Joined: May 19th, 2006, 10:46 am
Posts: 317
Location: Great Yarmouth, England
Gender: Girl
Post 
it might mean 'Great One' mayb :?


June 1st, 2006, 7:17 pm Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 5:31 pm
Posts: 473
Post 
Not to be rude, but I don;t think it is important to the storyline, so CP won't tell. It would be cool to know though.


June 23rd, 2006, 7:47 pm Profile
Cycle Moderator
Cycle Moderator
User avatar

Joined: June 5th, 2006, 4:56 am
Posts: 5409
Location: North of here, south of there
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: Dragonriders
Dragon: Melanthor
Post 
The name sounds kind of like the name of that snake from Harry Potter. You know, Voldemort's snake? I think its name is Nagini or Nagin. Something close to that.

_________________
You are most like SAPHIRA

Like the majestic dragon, Saphira, you are brave and ferocious in battle but also deep in ancient wisdom. You think before flying headfirst into battle. You prefer the solitude of the wilderness to the populated cities of Alagaesia.

SF Facebook

Raven & Oceanis, Tobias & Avalon, Taren, Valora, Liam, Aero, Arston & Arturos, Jason,
Lee & Melanthor, Silas, Asa & Naor, Darian, Illuna, Blake, Anastasia, Luka, Rok, Gwen, Ryker

There's no such thing as sane, we're all crazy.
Well hello Captain Obvious...Nice to meet you, I'm Lieutenant Sarcasm. >:)
Something here doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick. - The Doctor

Amy: You threw the manual in a supernova? Why?
Doctor: Because I disagreed with it! Now stop talking to me while I'm cross!


June 23rd, 2006, 7:51 pm Profile
DragonRider in Training
DragonRider in Training

Joined: June 22nd, 2006, 2:57 pm
Posts: 566
Location: hereford, UK
Post 
Hadarac wrote:
no clue.....mabye it means something like "dragonmaster" or something

it wouldn't be dragonmaster because dragon is skulblaka


June 23rd, 2006, 7:54 pm Profile
BAD EMAIL
BAD EMAIL

Joined: April 23rd, 2006, 3:15 pm
Posts: 40
Post 
mabey its something like "wise leader". i dunno just a thought

_________________
(http://s.bebo.com/img/bebobadge_black.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; width: 300px; height: 175px;"><span style="width:90px; height:90px;"><a href="http://www.bebo.com/badge/1708182630"><img src="http://www.bebo.com/profilephoto/1708182630a182876392bblack.jpg" style="border: 0pt none ; margin: 10px 0pt 27px 10px; width: 90px; height: 90px;"></a></span><br><a href="http://www.bebo.com/badge/1708182630" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 10px; overflow: hidden; display: block; color: white; font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px; width: 300px;">Connor Somerville</a><a href="http://www.bebo.com/badge/1708182630" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 10px; display: block; color: white; font-weight: bold; font-size: 12px;">http://-666-no-name-666-.bebo.com/</a><br></div>
Se onr sverdar sitja hvass!


June 25th, 2006, 3:08 pm Profile
DragonRider in Training
DragonRider in Training

Joined: June 22nd, 2006, 2:57 pm
Posts: 566
Location: hereford, UK
Post 
the symbol is of PERSONAL meaning to the rider not a title

_________________
Image
Image Image Image Image Image Image
never judge the many by the few

I HATE ARYA AND THINK THAT VANIR WILL BE THE NEXT RIDER


June 25th, 2006, 3:13 pm Profile
Cycle Moderator
Cycle Moderator
User avatar

Joined: June 5th, 2006, 4:56 am
Posts: 5409
Location: North of here, south of there
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: Dragonriders
Dragon: Melanthor
Post 
Maybe it's part of his true name. Notice, I said part, not the whole thing. Or it might be a name he created from parts of different words in the AL.

_________________
You are most like SAPHIRA

Like the majestic dragon, Saphira, you are brave and ferocious in battle but also deep in ancient wisdom. You think before flying headfirst into battle. You prefer the solitude of the wilderness to the populated cities of Alagaesia.

SF Facebook

Raven & Oceanis, Tobias & Avalon, Taren, Valora, Liam, Aero, Arston & Arturos, Jason,
Lee & Melanthor, Silas, Asa & Naor, Darian, Illuna, Blake, Anastasia, Luka, Rok, Gwen, Ryker

There's no such thing as sane, we're all crazy.
Well hello Captain Obvious...Nice to meet you, I'm Lieutenant Sarcasm. >:)
Something here doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick. - The Doctor

Amy: You threw the manual in a supernova? Why?
Doctor: Because I disagreed with it! Now stop talking to me while I'm cross!


June 25th, 2006, 7:27 pm Profile
DragonRider in Training
DragonRider in Training

Joined: June 22nd, 2006, 2:57 pm
Posts: 566
Location: hereford, UK
Post 
that sounds plusable

_________________
Image
Image Image Image Image Image Image
never judge the many by the few

I HATE ARYA AND THINK THAT VANIR WILL BE THE NEXT RIDER


June 25th, 2006, 9:16 pm Profile
Peasant Elder
Peasant Elder

Joined: July 31st, 2006, 10:39 pm
Posts: 84
Location: op, fl
Gender: Girl
Post 
ya i agree

_________________
*blah blah blah*


August 2nd, 2006, 12:03 am Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 6:22 am
Posts: 421
Location: Alagaesia
Post 
Quote:
no clue.....mabye it means something like "dragonmaster" or something


Ohhh I like this one. This could be a difinite possibility and all considering what he has done so far in the books and what he has done in the past.

Quote:
it might mean 'Great One' mayb


But I like this one too. These are both great possibilities. Have to agree with both of you on the name. It would make sense and everything because of what he has done and who he is.

_________________
Image


August 2nd, 2006, 1:07 am Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
It could be his name in the ancient language.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 2nd, 2006, 1:08 am Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 6:22 am
Posts: 421
Location: Alagaesia
Post 
Om so this is what I found out on wilkipedia. Ok so Oromis is also called Osthato Chetowa which means The Mourning Sage. That I believe is his name in the ancient language. But I don't think it could be or have something to do with his sword since the name is totally different. Uggghhh...I am so confused at the moment.

_________________
Image


August 2nd, 2006, 1:37 am Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
If that is his name then anyone can control him. I wonder who all knows his true name.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 2nd, 2006, 2:44 am Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 6:22 am
Posts: 421
Location: Alagaesia
Post 
Well I'll guess a lot of the elves do since they naturally know their true names and whatnot or seem to know their true names. It's just what I found but I am not too sure if it has anything or any kind of link with his sword.

_________________
Image


August 2nd, 2006, 3:34 am Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. If anyone knew his name and had bad intentions that wouldn't be good. But Oromis is in bad shape so he wouldn't be too useful.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 2nd, 2006, 2:17 pm Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 6:22 am
Posts: 421
Location: Alagaesia
Post 
But look on the bright side. He's incredibly strong and powerful even if he is weaker than before or in bad shape. Wouldn't want to get in his way any day. Afterall he is The Cripple Who is Whole. :wink:

_________________
Image


August 2nd, 2006, 4:31 pm Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post Re: Oromis's Sword
Vanilla Ice wrote:
Hey, anyone here have any idea what Oromis's sword means? It is something like Naegling. It doesn't say in the pronounciation guide and I was hoping on of you guys knew.


On a google search I did I found this:

Naegling: Beowulf won this sword in a fight between the Geats and the Frisians.

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


August 2nd, 2006, 7:36 pm Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 6:22 am
Posts: 421
Location: Alagaesia
Post Re: Oromis's Sword
AnnieBee wrote:
Vanilla Ice wrote:
Hey, anyone here have any idea what Oromis's sword means? It is something like Naegling. It doesn't say in the pronounciation guide and I was hoping on of you guys knew.


On a google search I did I found this:

Naegling: Beowulf won this sword in a fight between the Geats and the Frisians.


Really it's quite amazing what you find and how simple it is to find it. I am always impressed...

This is neat...I have read some of Beowolf already and whoa it makes sense but it's really weird. Hmm...maybe there is some sort of link or connection that CP has made between the two.

_________________
Image


August 2nd, 2006, 7:41 pm Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
It seems that CP made a modification on King Hrothgar's name too.
Hroðgar, is an Old English cognate of Hrodger ( ROGER). This was the name of the Danish king in 'Beowulf'. See how very similar is the name!

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


August 2nd, 2006, 7:50 pm Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
I never even heard of the book Beowulf.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 2nd, 2006, 7:56 pm Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
Beowulf , is an epic poem in Old English written before the 10th century A.D., and it describes the adventures of a Scandinavian warrior.

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


August 2nd, 2006, 8:05 pm Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
Do you have that poem?

It's a book and not an easy read. There are companions which are sold in any bookstore to help on the comprehension of the poem/book. The best translation (I feel) is by Seamus Heaney.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 2nd, 2006, 8:09 pm Profile
New DragonRider
New DragonRider

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 6:22 am
Posts: 421
Location: Alagaesia
Post 
Yep. Beowolf is an epic poem and I was lucky to even read most of it in 8th grade...

Quote:
It seems that CP made a modification on King Hrothgar's name too.
Hroðgar, is an Old English cognate of Hrodger ( ROGER). This was the name of the Danish king in 'Beowulf'. See how very similar is the name!


Yes I agree Anniebee...very similar indeed. Well authors pull from other things and history and whatnot. Makes perfect sense. I wonder what other things he could have possibly pulled or are very similar to Beowolf.

Ok so here is a list of characters I have found from Beowolf...see any similarities? from wilkipedia...

* Beowulf - the hero of the Anglo-Saxon poem titled after him
* Breca - Beowulf’s childhood friend who competed with him in a swimming match
* Eadgils - a Swedish king also mentioned extensively in the Norse sagas
* Ecgþeow - a warrior in the service of the Geats
* Freawaru - the daughter of King Hroðgar and Queen Wealhtheow and wife of Ingeld, King of the Heatho-Bards
* Grendel - one of three antagonists (along with Grendel's Mother and the dragon)
* Grendel's mother - one of three antagonists (along with Grendel and the dragon)
* Hæþcyn - the son of the Geatish king Hreðel
* Herebeald - the son of the Geatish king Hrethel
* Heardred - the son of Hygelac, king of the Geats, and his queen Hygd
* Heorot - the great hall built by king Hrothgar
* Hildeburh - the daughter of the Danish King Hoc and the wife of the Finn, King of the Jutes
* Hreðel - king of the Geats
* Hroðgar - king of Danes and is married to Wealhþeow
* Hrothulf - king of the Danes
* Hrunting - the magical sword given to Beowulf by Unferth
* Hygd - queen of the Geats; the wife of king Hygelac
* Hygelac - king of the Geats; the husband of Hygd
* Modthryth - queen who punishes those who look her directly in the eye; later marries Offa
* Naegling - the magical sword used by Beowulf to slay the dragon, but his might was too strong and the blade broke in combat. Name probably translates as "Nail" or "Kinsman of the Nail."
* Ohthere - king of the Swedish house of Scylfings
* Shield Sheafson - (Scyld Scēfing) warrior king who founded the ruling house in Denmark
* Unferth - a thane of the Danish lord Hroðgar
* Wealhþeow - queen of Danes and is married to Hroðgar
* Wiglaf - Swedish warrior who helps Beowulf slay the dragon

Ok but anyway back on topic...his sword has to mean something and I think we will find out in book 3!

_________________
Image


August 2nd, 2006, 8:13 pm Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
Nice, I also can't wait until the third book comes out.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 2nd, 2006, 8:23 pm Profile
Cycle Moderator
Cycle Moderator
User avatar

Joined: June 5th, 2006, 4:56 am
Posts: 5409
Location: North of here, south of there
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: Dragonriders
Dragon: Melanthor
Post 
You can usually rely on Anniebee to find stuff in obscrure corners of the internet.

_________________
You are most like SAPHIRA

Like the majestic dragon, Saphira, you are brave and ferocious in battle but also deep in ancient wisdom. You think before flying headfirst into battle. You prefer the solitude of the wilderness to the populated cities of Alagaesia.

SF Facebook

Raven & Oceanis, Tobias & Avalon, Taren, Valora, Liam, Aero, Arston & Arturos, Jason,
Lee & Melanthor, Silas, Asa & Naor, Darian, Illuna, Blake, Anastasia, Luka, Rok, Gwen, Ryker

There's no such thing as sane, we're all crazy.
Well hello Captain Obvious...Nice to meet you, I'm Lieutenant Sarcasm. >:)
Something here doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick. - The Doctor

Amy: You threw the manual in a supernova? Why?
Doctor: Because I disagreed with it! Now stop talking to me while I'm cross!


August 12th, 2006, 1:00 am Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
Saphirarox wrote:
You can usually rely on Anniebee to find stuff in obscrure corners of the internet.


Actually, that one (the best version of Beowulf) wasn't from the internet, I helped my daughter with it when it was assigned in her English class.

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


August 12th, 2006, 1:37 am Profile
Black Dragon
Black Dragon
User avatar

Joined: July 12th, 2006, 5:32 pm
Posts: 5379
Location: Bethesda, MD; my computer; lala land; Alagaesia
Gender: Guy
Affiliation: Elves
Post 
What's Beowulf??? Huh???

_________________
taking someone's dragon for a joyride... not one of my better ideas
"I suppose I won't see you for a while, so farewell, best of luck, avoid roasted cabbage, don't eat earwax, and look on the bright side of life!" - Angela
[/color]

RiderEriel wrote:
Oh wow.. I'm seriously scared of IMNC, I'll give you guys that. (No sarcasm there, I really am LOL)


August 12th, 2006, 1:46 am Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
You'll have to read all the previous posts if you want to know! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


August 12th, 2006, 1:48 am Profile
Black Dragon
Black Dragon
User avatar

Joined: July 12th, 2006, 5:32 pm
Posts: 5379
Location: Bethesda, MD; my computer; lala land; Alagaesia
Gender: Guy
Affiliation: Elves
Post 
No thanks!!! I don't think it's worth it!

_________________
taking someone's dragon for a joyride... not one of my better ideas
"I suppose I won't see you for a while, so farewell, best of luck, avoid roasted cabbage, don't eat earwax, and look on the bright side of life!" - Angela
[/color]

RiderEriel wrote:
Oh wow.. I'm seriously scared of IMNC, I'll give you guys that. (No sarcasm there, I really am LOL)


August 12th, 2006, 1:59 am Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
It's a book, but I forget what it is about. Annibee knows.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


August 14th, 2006, 2:26 am Profile
Dragon Egg Carrier
Dragon Egg Carrier
User avatar

Joined: August 14th, 2006, 5:40 am
Posts: 261
Location: Ellesméra
Gender: Guy
Affiliation: Elves
Post 
what r we suposed to be talking about??????

_________________
"Live in the present, remember the past, & fear not the future. For it does not exist & never shall. There is only now"~Saphira

In war truth is the first casualty.
History is written by the victors.

Image
plz click the egg dont let a dragon die


August 16th, 2006, 5:55 pm Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
Vanilla Ice asked if anyone knew the meaning of Naegling, Oromis's sword. I did a google search found the meaning and it turns out that Eragon has other names the same or similar to characters or things in Beowulf.

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


August 17th, 2006, 3:54 am Profile
Wise DragonRider
Wise DragonRider

Joined: September 5th, 2006, 8:57 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: The refugee of the past the esscnesne of my future (my mind)
Post 
intriguing so waht was the meaing of Ormosis sowrd anyaway?

_________________
" KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! "

" Bring their leaders to me!" - Mouth of Souron

" The begining of a New evolution...."- Lord Reginer


Curretnally: A desperate adddict of Fantasy particuaillary games

Hopes to be: A Zooloist

ULTIMATE LIFE STATUS: Consumed by my own passion


September 26th, 2006, 8:35 pm Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
It is the name Beowulf's sword.
Naegling: Beowulf won this sword in a fight between the Geats and the Frisians.

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


September 28th, 2006, 2:54 am Profile
Wise DragonRider
Wise DragonRider

Joined: September 5th, 2006, 8:57 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: The refugee of the past the esscnesne of my future (my mind)
Post 
intresting, however I pondering what the name of his sword meant

_________________
" KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! "

" Bring their leaders to me!" - Mouth of Souron

" The begining of a New evolution...."- Lord Reginer


Curretnally: A desperate adddict of Fantasy particuaillary games

Hopes to be: A Zooloist

ULTIMATE LIFE STATUS: Consumed by my own passion


September 28th, 2006, 8:01 pm Profile
Admin
Admin
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2006, 12:43 am
Posts: 10912
Location: Freezing every night and LOVING IT!
Gender: Girl
Affiliation: SF Rebels
Dragon: Imnaha
Post 
Lord Zaragonth wrote:
intresting, however I pondering what the name of his sword meant



This is what Wikipedia has to say about it:

Naegling is the name of Beowulf's sword in the Icelandic epic poem of the same name. The name is derived from the Norse word for "nail." The sword does not survive Beowulf's final encounter with the dragon, however, as it breaks under the warrior's strength. It is also the name of the sword of the elven dragon rider, Oromis in the 'Inheritance' book series by Christopher Paolini.

I did not find any additional information on the name. All I do recall is what I had already posted. Sorry!!

_________________
~.~.~.~.~.~Image


September 30th, 2006, 1:07 am Profile
Wise DragonRider
Wise DragonRider

Joined: September 5th, 2006, 8:57 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: The refugee of the past the esscnesne of my future (my mind)
Post 
thats okay the info you have aquired seems sufficent

_________________
" KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! "

" Bring their leaders to me!" - Mouth of Souron

" The begining of a New evolution...."- Lord Reginer


Curretnally: A desperate adddict of Fantasy particuaillary games

Hopes to be: A Zooloist

ULTIMATE LIFE STATUS: Consumed by my own passion


October 1st, 2006, 6:49 pm Profile
Green Dragon
Green Dragon

Joined: July 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm
Posts: 8229
Gender: Guy
Post 
That's ok. It's pretty cool how it is related.

_________________
Image[URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/URL


October 2nd, 2006, 1:40 pm Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1  [ 40 posts ]

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: HTTrack and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Copyright © 2004 - 2012 SaphiraForums - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin - Modified by SaphiraForums.
Privacy Policy