For the love of god...THE ELVES LIVE ON ALGAESIA!!! YOU'RE THINKING ALGAESIA IS THE EMPIRE, well guess what...WRONG! IT'S THE CONTINENT!!! THE ELVES LIVE IN ALGAESIA SO IF ARYA WANTED TO LIVE WITH THEM, SHE WOULDN'T HAVE TO LEAVE!!!

And did you listen to me at all? I don't think Nasuada is from Algaesia because nobody knows where she's from. So when Eragon leaves, he could be going to Nasuada's homeland with NASUADA!!!

The probelm with that is Nasuada's homeland hasn't even been mentioned. Also, why isn't her homeland helping with the war? Nasuada would probably mentioned it too since its her homeland.

She was tooken to the Varden by Ajihad while she was a BABY. There was a confict or something that made Ajihad take Nasuada away and he never told her. And her homeland wont help cause they don't know where she is.

I'm talking about across the sea. Remember when Brom was saying how alot of the elves came by ship to Alagaesia and how the urgals followed? That must mean that the elves have another homeland across the sea. So he will cross the sea with Arya to her elven homeland because Alagaesia isn't her real homeland.

She was born in Algaesia, it is her homeland. If some people imigrated to America from Europe, and had a baby, America would be it's homeland.

Then her kind's homeland then. Her mother must of have came across the sea and Arya must have some knowledge of it so they'll both cross the sea together.

How do we know Nasuada's people aren't some elven desendents from the same land?

Because she isn't elve that's why. And neither is her father.

How do we KNOW? Just because she doesn't have the ears? They could be lesser elves. In fact, just because they arrived on a ship doesn't mean they came from a different bit of land. Brom could have just thought they where from another land.

Where else could they have come from? Alagaesia wasn't really that inhabitated because of the dragons. Brom stayed with the elves if you remember. He was the only human they trusted.

He stayed with them in Ellesmera. And besides, Arya wouldn't want to be with other elves. She said she didn't feel like she would fit in with the elves.

Back when she was captured and was in that prison for awhile. That's what I was talking about, Brom stayed with them in Ellesmera.

Hold on, do you think Ellesmera isn't part of Algaesia?

These last posts are somewhat unsettling to me. Once more I need to remind everyone there are no right or wrong answers until the final installment is out. We all are speculating and these assumptions are all spinning off the previous two installments. So let's please play nice. And pls hold off the capital letters, it's shouting and not polite. It would be a good thing if you revise the forum's rules because it seems we have forgotten them. Just in case, here's one of the most important ones:

3) Regarding Respect


A) People should be able to post their own opinions without people constantly opposing them.

B) Respect also refers to NOT spreading around false things about someone. This is also known as "Gossip" and I am sure everyone agrees that there is enough of this at any school and none is needed here.

C) Be kind, but be yourself unless your normal self is a Jerk. We don't need anymore of those either.

That out of the way I would like to add that elves not only lived in Ellesmera. Just take a look at the map any you'll be able to see the book has more elven cities. All the north-eastern territory belongs to the elves. This was also givien/mentioned to us in both books.

Brom tells Eragon of the arrival of elves from unknown lands, so we are safe to assume they do have another place of origin, out towards the sea. He goes as far as telling him (and us) the deep love elves feel for the sea.
In regards to Nasuada and Ajihad, we know nothing of their origin. We know not who was Ajihad's wife/mate and Nasuada's mother.

Oh, and I think, if Eragon has acquired pointy ears asa result of his bond with Saphira, then it should be safe to assume that a human/elf would have them too. There's no guarantee, but I would think it's a possibility.

Remember guys, Play Nice!!!

We will Ms. Anniebee. Pwomis. "little kid voice"

they could be descendants of the elves, that would explain why ajihad was so strong.

I doubt it.

me too, i just think that it's a possibility.

"You see there is something I have been saying all the time. Here and at Books & More. But no one listens!!!!
I feel Eragon is just infatuated with Ayra. I mean, what isn't there to be infatuated about?
1st. He scryed her in his dreams. And it turn out to be she was real.
2nd. She is an elf. A race of which Eragon had been fascinated when Brom told him about them
3rd. SHE IS BEAUTIFUL!
4th. Ayra is not only a pretty face but an excellent swordswoman with whom he can practice for fun.
5th. She is smart and knowledgeable.
6th. Her denying him only makes him more determined to win her.
And last but not least, the first woman for which he feels attraction! (as far as we know)!

I know this is fantasy, but if we were to transfer this to real life, it's his first love, attraction or infatuation. (And those seldomly end up in a union)." -Annie

you said JUST infatuated. he is beyond mere infatuation. I've explained this many times.

ok. back to the topic at hand, she DOES, but only recently conciously. this topic isn't if they will get together, it is DOES SHE LOVE HIM!!!!

but the point is she doesn't

that isn't THE point. it is YOUR point. and a most likely incorrect one at that. please give reason to Arya's change in demenor b4 and after the battle of the burning plains. The most probable reason posed is that she realizes that she loves him and hides it.

i don't think that that's true... half-elves? thats strange...

Its sort of far fetched. Elves are proud and they wouldn't want to "mix" their blood with humans or least of all dwarves...

I THOUGHT THAT POST LOOKED FAMILIAR!

A change in demenor? does anyone else not remeber that part?

caterpillar, if the mods are wrong...then it the end of the world as we know it.

No further along are we?

I would have to agree with IMNC on this one . I too think her feelings changed for Eragon when she thought he was dead. I think she realized how much she was going to miss him as a friend and then her "secret" love for him revealed itself . She may have been too shocked that she was kind of in a daze and she was embarrassed and in a way didn't want it to be that way. So she hid her affection a little too well.

Who really knows? Not the fandom. That’s what speculation is all about!




I agree, note the word, acknowledged, she has not acknowledged her feelings which have been slowly creepy up no matter how hard the logic part of her brain has tried giving her the reasons why it could not come to be.

Also note the word, speculation.

Personally, I don't think Arya is in love with him. And, I stick by this because I am otherwise a sappy hopeless romantic. If I believe something will happen, I'll kindof get attached to it, and always be waiting to hear more. But however much my romantic side wants something to happen, the rest of me says whether it will or not. I don't think Eragon is in love with her either, he's infatuated, and there ARE plenty of reasons to be, but that's not true love. It's a learning experience for him.

And we must remember, she's not as young as she looks. Maybe the thought of him dieing made her realize her love, but, honestly, that makes her sound like a teenager to me. I don't pretend to know how the mind of someone who's lived for over a hundred years works, but I would think some experiene and wisdom would come with those years. After that much life, I think I would know myself well enough to tell what my heart is feeling, but I could be wrong, being young as I am.

Even if she does love him, I just don't think it's meant to be.

lol. *in an obviously sarcastic tone* that's a great reason to stick with something. *end of sarcastic tone*

He is infatuated, but his love has developed into more. I'm not saying that his infatuation is gone. He is just developing a truer love for her. I don't think that he could have come up with his decision to not chase after her but can and will not change his feelings towards her. This shows that it is more than mere infatuation. That was a pretty mature decision he made and it shows growth. It is a learning experience, but that does not make it any less important or true. It is just that we think of first loves as not very true, but that is not really fact, especially because this is fiction.

You do not know how much someone means to you until you lose them. ever heared that? It's true. Very true. True for someone at any age. It is not just a teenager thing. I dunno what lead you to believe that it is only true for teens. And constant strife and the need to detach yourself from everything is a probable cause for her not knowing herself as much as she might.

if it is meant to be is irrelivant.

Actually, it's a very good reason to stick with something, because I know that if I truly believed that Arya and Eragon should be together, I would be fully behind it. Sticking to what you believe is a good, don't you think?

If Eragon's feelings have been shown as anything more than infatuation in the books it is because perhaps HE believes he is in love her. He's a 16 year old boy, so I'm sorry if I don't trust his judgement. It's not exactly objective, as he is the one supposedly in love.

You do have a point that you don't know how much someone means to you until they are or you think they are gone. But I think the reason I didn't notice any change in Arya after the battle is because I didn't see anything that didn't fit into what I expected of her as Eragon's friend.

But, who cares? It's pretty hopeless to argue with you anyway. And I don't apreciate your sarcasm.

"because I am otherwise a sappy hopeless romantic." that was your initially stated reason. that is what i was talking about. and the "lol" b4 means i'm just joking around w/ u. im a 14 yr old guy. we do it all the time.

It is not 1st person. The narrator is credible. it isn't through the filter of Eragon's eyes. And what about trusting his judgement? And what do you mean by your last sentence of that paragraph???

She said absolutely nothing when he returned from battle after she thought he was dead. How does that fit into what you think of her as Eragon's friend? a friend would have embraced him!

how is it hopeless? what? I'm too good so you can't win? lol.

good point, however i don't think this is true, but it's possible that cp didn't think of that because he was excited because he was almost done with his book

i don't think that'll happen either...

Here's a way she wouldn't move, wouldn't love him, and would still be his friend.

She is a wise woman, so she would have known that if she embraced him or anything of the like, Eragon would get worked up again like he has before, and try to woo her again. She is his friend, so she didn't want to lead him on. So she waited a little bit to make sure Eragon wouldn't think she meant more than a friend would. (As she would only mean it as a friend)

everything is too thought out to have just been a rushed comment. I mean Nasuada embraced him! And she said "the candle still burns." i dunno what exactly it means, but she did something, but nothing you would expect from a friend.

i don't think it'll work out like that shadowagent... the story wouldn't be any good that way

You're saying the story would suck if Arya and Eragon didn't get together? Get over it, she's a Mary-Sue.

it won't happen that way,, everyone knows that!

She is only portrayed as a Mary-Sue because the book is in Third person limited. we see her more or less as Eragon does.

And Eragon has said he wouldn't and he is not one to go back against his word. Eragon thinks that she doesnt love him so he wouldn't misconstrue it as love.

Why do I bother trying with you?

and Nasuada didn't embrace him she cupped his face in her hands in an act of caring. and don't turn it around and say that she loves eragon. eragon was feeling bad since he had just found out who his father was, he needed some compasion.

Because that's what I'mnotcrazy wants.

"Nasuada stopped in the middle of her sentence as she spotted the new arrivals. Running toward them, she threw her arms around Eragon." pg 660.

and please don't turn it around like that.

Do you think Eragon and Nasuada will get together now too?

Nothing. I don't see anything wrong with that, but shadowagent does.

yeah! really! and it is almost totally expected if you are good friends! *hinting at Arya not hugging him*

"She threw her arms aound Eragon crying"

Don't skimp on what happened either. Though I see what Anniebee's getting at. It's just that this is the first Nasuada ever outbursted like that. I don't think she even cried when Ajihad died. At least not when anyone was around.

I think she is in alot of emotional stress right now, with everyone dieing on her. Like her father and then Eragon who she thought was dead but was still alive. I think she was just really happy to of not lost another one close to her.

"Nasuada stopped in the middle of her sentence as she spotted the new arrivals. Running toward them, she threw her arms around Eragon and cried, 'Where were you? We thought you were dead or worse.'" you don't skimp and swist the words!!!! i left out the text part. cried is just how she said what she said!

You leave stuff out to suit your own purposes too.

when??? WHEN??? no i haven't!!!

I don't know if you have or not.

I agree. I'm sure Arya was happy to see him alive, it was just her nature to be more subdued about it. Nasuada had to have been under alot of stress at the time and good news like Eragon returning probably was relieving for her.

Or maybe everyone just has a secret crush on Eragon. I may be a sucker for romance, but if it doesn't fit, I don't want it there.

Actually it went more like,

Eragon walked in the tent. Nasuada turned her eyes to the new arivals, as she saw them she screamed "Eragon!". Eragon was unprepared for how happy he was to see her. She ran over throwing her arms around him and cried, "Eragon what happened? We thought you where dead or worse.

There! Eragon was happier to see her then he expected and there's a COMMA! That means she cried and THEN said that stuff.

Maybe, that'd be weird though. Every girl loving him and then they all approach him at once and then there'd be a major cat fight.

Arya doesn't love him though. She was the one acting like a friend would. An elf friend, anyway.

Yeah, weird. And slightly scary. Definately subject for a fanfic that I probably wouldn't read.



Indeed. I can't think of anything else to say there.

"There! Eragon was happier to see her then he expected"-Shadowagent 0 (sorry ,still learning how to do quotes )
Anyways he was happy because he thought she was injured. Remember near the middle of the battle when she had a big gash on her leg but she refused to let him heal it? He was probably glad to see that she had been healed. Also another reason is that he had just been told that his father was Morzan, he needed to be comforted.

Umm, if you're trying to quote from the book there, I just looked and that sentence about being happier than expected to see her doesn't seem to be in my book. And the word cried in this case is referring to her how she said it, not that she was crying while she said it.

Here's the exact quote if anyone wants to know:

Nasuada stopped in the middle of her sentence as she spotted the new arrivals. Running toward them, she threw her arms around Eragon and cried, "Where were you? We thought you were dead, or worse."
"Not quite."
"The candle still burns," murmured Arya.

Now I don't know what the thing about the candle means, but it could be a reference to how much time had passed since they lost contact with him, or that Eragon is still alive, but that hardly seems like something to murmer cryptically about, so I'll go with time.

Edit: Oh, and notice she said "We thought you were dead..." not "I thought you were dead...". I have a feeling if she felt something for Eragon, she might have said "I", but then again maybe not. Oh, and shadoagent, I really hope you weren't trying to quote, cause it wasn't that great. But, hey, I'm perfectionistic and I make sure anything I quote is exactly what it said.

I think Arya was a little shocked that Eragon was still alive so probably all she could get out.
As for "the candle still burns" it was obvious to me that she was refering to Eragon still living another reason that she only murmured it is that you don't exactly shout out "The candle still burns!"

Yes, that would be rather strange, wouldn't it.

*sigh* so he was happy to see her. big deal. This is Third Person Limited, so if he loved her, we would know about it. and you always have a comma in that instance. example: She said, "Where were you?"
said is the same kind of thing.

To Annie and Corina: then can you explain why the elves at Ceris danced around in circles and laughed together when Arya appeared? it is the same kind of thing. Even Arya laughed. she is hiding some emotion. it's not negative and the only positive emotion she would hide in those circumstances is love.

i just thought of something, but i haven't thought the entire thing through. please don't start discrediting it b4 i think it all the way through. i just want to get it down in writing.
Maybe the candle symbolizes her love for him? i got to think about this... hmm..... or it could have multiple meanings: her love, his living... this feels like english class! lol. i have to do this a ton for poems....

Anythings possible I guess. Good idea

gosh.....do i really have to say more?

she should still be very happy. you don't find out your friend is not dead and then do NOTHING!!! Even for elves that is strange. She murmurs to herself. That is IT. And why SHOULD she hold back? there really is no good reason unless she is trying to hide something.

hmm..........candle........love............light...........burn............flicker............melt...........taper..........flame...........fire..........heat.........

I'm sorry, but why the heck would she murmur some comment about her love for him at that particularly point, even if she was completely madly in love with him. It makes no sense in context. She's just going to murmer at a random moment because she's suddenly realized she's in love with him? I don't really an elf as the random murmuring type.

I just had a thought. Maybe she wasn't as over-the-top in her welcome because she wasn't surprised by it. Yes, she did try to contact him and couldn't find him, but friends don't give up that easily.

Annie makes a very good point. There is a big difference between not seeing someone for a few hours and thinking they might be dead (because I really don't think any of them would truly believe he was dead with only failed contact as evidence. I certainly wouldn't give up after that) and thinking that someone is surely dead for months. She is also, as I have said before, much more subdued in her emotions than Nasuada. She must have thought of the possibility that Eragon needed to have a barrier up for some reason; she's smart.

caterpillar, IMNC, it's a metaphor, “the candles still burns” could be “there is still hope”… Hope for the Varden, hope for the dragons, hope for Alagaesia, hope for Ayra… Who knows? However, do you remember this;
“The elves dropped from the trees and embraced Ayra, laughing in their clear pure voices. They joined hands and danced in a circle around her like children, singing merrily as they spun through the grass.
Eragon watched in amazement. Ayra had never given him reason to suspect that elves liked to─or even could─laugh. It was a wondrous sound, like flutes and harps trilling with delight at their own music. He wished that he could listen to it forever.” Eldest, 166

So this one of the excerpts that prove Ayra was not one to go all emotional.

Yeah, she didn't do anything, did she?

She probably at least smiled. She had to of been at least a little happy I mean, she she hadn't seen her own kind in almost a year.

Sorry, I was going by memory. It says he wasn't expecting how happy he was to see her when he first arrives at the burning plains.

yes but that only shows that he was (a) worried that she might not be alive. or (b) still had a bit of a crush on her. but it doesn't have anything to do with Arya loving Eragon.

'Tis ok, shadowagent. Like I said, I'm a perfectionist. But, that said, it's probably a good idea to check when you're quoting.

Thank you, again, Annie. It IS a metaphor. Though I'm not surprised that you took at as romantic, INC.

When did I say it had anything to do with Arya? I hate Arya.

i wasn't saying you thought about it i was just stating it.

Why would you state it?

i agree that it probably is a metaphor, but for what even she might not have known.

remember eragon for a time had very confused feelings for her, and it's possible thats what she is feeling now, she may not know how she feels for him. if she doesn't love him yet she probably will by the end of EMPIRE

Arya is over a hundred years old. shes very wise and your making her sound very young. I think someone as old as her would understand her own feelings.

how many times have you read them? on a bunch of your theories you know excacly what page everything is on.

***! i just said don't discredit me b4 i thought it all through! I'm just going at things from every angle and seeing things from a different, less obvious light. We've been doing that in English class w/ poetry. Take Shakespeare's Sonnet 73 for example. A choir is the east junction of a cathedral, where the choir sits and the high alter is. All cathedrals face east and west, the rose window to the west, to catch the last light for the evening service. Sunset is mentioned a couple lines down. I came up with that and even Ms. Denizé was impressed. I'm just trying to come up with what exactly the metaphor of a candle can mean, from more than just one obvious angle.

Didn't Nasuada say "WE thought you were dead, or worse."? the WE means her and Arya. Arya thought that he was dead also. She would have no reason to decieve Nasuada if she knew otherwise. If she even thought otherwise, she would have said something. She thought Eragon was dead. So she is subdued in her emotions. She never even once said she was glad to see him, or a thank goodness you are alive. NOTHING.

and she isn't and I agree Annie. That is what i have been saying, but i think she realized her feelings then.

Edited by Annie 12/03/06

wt* is one of the most used acronyms in IMing and it is so overused that the * has lost its harsh meaning. it's pretty much slang for what.

that is exactly what i meant. undermining what i said. i was trying to get an idea going here, but u 2 had to come in and say no bla no bla bla bla. and she said it to herself. she might have been thinking aloud. she murmured it. she didn't declare it. and she could have been trying to convince herself not to love him, she thought it worked, and when he came in, she found out it didn't work, and thusly the candle in her heart for Eragon still burns. just an idea, and i still have to think the rest out.

THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING!!! you are changing your story. you were saying the same thing i am now. w/o using her reactions b4 and after the battle, there is 0 evidence for her loving him. there is a simple, unarguable possibility of her loving him.

yeah you are. you can't argue anything but the possibility w/o using that example.

if you don't believe that she has diserned her feelings, then please explain her reactions BEFORE and after the battle of the burning plains with more than "she doesn't display her feelings". and both you and Corina forget the BEFORE part. that is important too.

i really think your over reacting. Arya had just faught a huge battle and was relieved when she found that Eragon was alive. and WE doesn't necessarily her and Arya. it could mean Arya,Nasuada,orrin, orik....shall i go on?

Hmmm. I don't see how we could've forgotten "before" since most of this discussion has been about a change. You have to look at both before and after to see a change, right? But, really, I'm just getting technical.

As for explaining her reactions, I didn't see a change. Arya has always been less openly emotional among the Varden (it is true that she wasn't so much like this with the elves; of course she wasn't, she's among her own people. she feels more at home with them).

"
This is the AFTER, just to quench you're anxiety!
"When they reached the pavilion Eragon was searching for, he swept back the flap and ducked inside, followed by Roran and Saphira, who pushed her hed and neck in after them. In the center of the tent, Nasuada sat on the edge of the table, letting a maid remove her twisted armor while she carried on a heated discussion with Ayra. The cut on her thigh had been healed.
Nasuada stopped in the middle of her sentence as spotted the new arrivals. Running toward them, she threw her arms around Eragon and cried, "Where were you? We thought you were dead, or worse."
"Not quite."
"The candle still burns," murmured Ayra.
Stepping back, Nasuada said, "We couldn't see what happened to you and Saphira after you landed on the plateau. When the red dragon left and you didn't appear, Ayra tried to contact you but felt nothing..." She trailed off. "We were just debating the best way to transport Du Varangr Gata and an entire company of warriors across the river." Eldest 660


Pls recall back when Eragon swore fealty to Nasuada, she spoke to him first in a friendly and kind demeanor. She went as far as acknowledging Eragon's lost. (frindship between Eragon and Murtagh. It was later that she took up the mantle of the leader of the Varden and became buisiness-like. Before the battle , she even spoke to him more as a friend than as a liegelord. She went as far as telling him he was to lead the Varden in case she died. I perceived a very good friendship from Nasuada's side. No love interest there.

"Ayra tried to contact you but felt nothing," Both women thought him dead so it seems to me that the metaphor used by Ayra fits as I said, "Hope for the Varden, hope for the dragons, hope for Alagaesia..."
Arya is not being emotional. If she is, it would be (in my book) as of for thr Varden, for the cause for the dragons, for Alagaesia.
She is not acknowledging personal feelings for Eragon. WE, the readers, are hoping this, may have, (note MAY HAVE), stirred some other feelings there, which would make her consider confronting what is it that she really feels for Eragon.

This is to quench your before; It's too long, check page 593 of Eldest. If I have the time I'll post it tomorrow. Finals week!!! What a drag!

finals, ouch we had them around here last year, but this year we have them after christmas. i dont' know wether to be happy or sad. and we have to go back to school on the second, and i get my braces off on the 3rd exactly 2 years and one day after i got them on


back on topic, i agree that i may be a metaphor for hope, but i said this before, she maybe unsure about feelings for him, like how eragon felt about her earlier, he had confused feelings and she might too


Edited by Annie Bee. Merged double post in one on 12/14/06

Did you just double post on purpose?