I believe, that the vault of souls may contain Bid'Daum's (sp?) heart of hearts, and i'me sorry if this is a topice already used, if anyone has any arguments or anything i'me free to suggestion.

Who is bid'daum?

(It's been a long time since I read the books.)

Bid'daum is the first Eragon's dragon
thats a really good idea but I don't think Eragon needs another heart of hearts he already has Glader's

thankyou, but remembergalbatorix has many hearts of heart, and eragon will need all the help he can get remember that may be what galby used to speed up thorn's growth

your right, its just keep thinking that eragon will have to carry them with him everywhere he goes and they could be really heavy. lol

true, but if murtagh can then it shouldn't be that hard for eragon to do the same

but were still not completly sure if that thing he had was and eldunari

Hmmm, you make a good arguement, but eragon had Gladear's heart and he coule easily carry it and At best Bid'Daum's heart wouldn't be too large for saphira to carry.

yeah, but the reason murtagh was able to carry it was galby uses dark magic

Well, i think that Murtagh is carrying more than a few hearts, i mean how can he be that strong if he isn't...

yeah, he was definitely carrying some hearts, but since galby was really there, galby was the reason he could carry so many, but eragon doesn't have galby to help him carry the extra hearts

eldunari grow with the dragons and if Bid'daum lived for a really long time his eldunari could be huge

yeah, that too. so if the VoS really did have Bid'daum's heart, it would be too huge for eragon to carry around

well, remember Gladear was extremely old, and his hoh could be carried by eragon

he was over a thousand. Bid'Daum could have been over a million we don't know

yeah, and eragon may of been able to carry glaedr's, but could he carry glaedr's and bid'daum's?

Remember that he may not have to cary it himself, saphira has a saddle,and as big as she is, it would not be hard for her to carry Bid'Daum's heart no matter how old he is, if we are to compare Gladear's age with the size of his heart.

yeah, but that might hinder saphira's evasive maneuvers in battle

Yrue, but why did it not seem to hinder Thorn's, because they have to be carrying around more than 5 of thise with them at all times, or they wouldn't be able to slow Oromis, and Eragon down.

simple. it didn't hinder thorn because galby helped them with his dark magic

If Galby has that much power it dosn't matter what the elves, varden, dwarves, and eragon/saphira do he is much too powerful..

thats why we need Torn and Murtagh on the Varden's side since Murtagh knows powerful spells he would be the best ally

well its really not too much power to be in murtagh's head and give him strength to carry a lot of invisible eldunari

You have a point. Since Bid'Daum was the first dragon of a dragonrider wouldn't it be possible that this specific dragon could have an importance influence on the dragons that followed in his/her (don't remember) footsteps.

CP never really explain in much details the eldunari. We know that Galbatorix is using them and has been able to attach is self to many of them. Maybe Bid'Daum could get them to reason and stop providing to Galbatorix

maybe murtagh wasn't touching the eldunari, but galby was, and through their link, murtagh, and that's what gave them power

i'm talking about in brisingr

exactly. but he was battling galby connected to murtagh

because it was still murtagh fighting, just galby in his head

I would still think that galbatorix energy was channel into murtagh

yeah, but oromis was more powerful than he looked

yeah, that's what i meant though

I always thought that the vault of souls contained quite a few old heart of hearts, but for all we know, we may all be wrong..

but that's what these topics are for, eh?

whats going to happen to these topics once we know what will happen?

probably get dissolved like the some of the eldest topics

it could be in the vault of souls but anything could be in there....including really strong monsters

ok, I think that perhaps the vault of souls is just that. Maybe it is where the spirits (the ones thats sorcs summon) are there. they seem to have some crazy magic power (turning a lily in to pure LIVING gold) perhaps they can teach him something like how to absorb power from the elements which they seem to be part of? or the first good shade? (instead of the mage forcing the spirits the serve them the spirits help them willingly?)

i just think that just having some horde of HOH is way to obvious. so far i have found CP to be not completely obvious in his writing, and also Oromis said that at the start galby could not control more then a handful of HOH and this is after he alrdy knew about them AND knew how and had some experience controlling them. (obviously his teachers taught him how or he would not have even know that they exist) so even if Eragon somehow found hundreds of the oldest most powerful HOH it would still take him years to be able to control them all.


it also just seems a silly prospect, all the clues lead to Eragon learning about something that galby dosnt know or overlooks. (when Brom spoke to eragon as his father through Saphira he said "the trick is finding a spell your enemy has overlooked and using it against him")

which comes to another thought i had. maybe the ROK is across the ocean, where the elves came from before they came to alagaesia, thats why both of the elves Eragon tells about it seem to remember it but don't know why, because its some ancient place of theirs from beyond the borders of alagaesia.

or mabie it has something to do with the dwarves seeing as pretty much anything to do with rocks has something to do with the dwarves

Ummm... Galbatorix has trouble controlling so many because they all hate him... If Eragon where to use them I think that he could control more because they would want to help him... Like when he had the circle of elves powering his magic in his confrontation with Murtagh he didn’t have to spare any attention to using their power. The only reason that Galbatorix is limited is because of the fact that he has to subdue them I believe... If they were to actively cooperate I see no reason for there to be a limitation on how many he could use...

PS: How stupid is it that someone as smart and experienced as Oromis didn’t have a way of holding on to the sword during a seizure? Seeing as he’s lived with the disability for ages I think he would have prepared for all eventualities and cast a spell or just plain bound the damn thing to his hand... I know this whole bit is off topic but am I the only one that couldn’t help but laugh at the huge gaping hole in plot when Oromis died? Cause it seems kind of stupid to me... Anyway sorry ‘bout the rant but it’s been building for a while...

how will it attach the sword to his hand?

Eragon 222 he could just tie some rope to the handle and wrap it around his hand and to neonium I completely agree when I read about the death of Oromis my reaction was are you serious he could have just tied it to his hand with some string.

its a good thoery

He wouldn't be able to tie a sword to his hand if he lost the grip he wouldn't be able to get it again without having to take the time to untie the rope or string. He couldn't cast a spell because even though he had a lot of power in his sword it would drain his energy to cast a spell to get rid of his pain. Oromis was doing just fine against Murtagh but I dont think there was any chance of him winning when Galby started used Murtaghs body. If he can do that from so far away then there is no telling what he can do.

gomensigh

1. Oromis can tie the sword to his hand with rope and be able to grab it again with his other hand by swinging it.
2. The reason the sword would have saved Oromis is the wards on the sword not it's ability to let Oromis cast powerful spells.
3. Galby could be using Thorn's eldunari to invade thorn's mind but allow to continue controlling his actions. Galby could then use his position in thorn's mind to invade Murtagh's mind and take control of his actions. So Galby isn't really controlling Murtagh's mind from all that distance away. It's actually like Galby is right next to Murtagh.
4. There is probably more energy in the sword than there is in even Aren.

1. If the rope was that loosely tied then there would be no point to it, the sword would still be able to fall off.

2. I was talking about how neonium said and how even though he had a lot of power in his sword he still couldn't cast any spells because it would require a constant amount of energy and a complicated wording to make sure nothing goes wrong.

3. You don't know what Galby is doing he would probably have waited for Thorn's Eldunari to get bigger before taking it. He already has both of them under his control. Since he knows a lot more about everything than people think, he wouldn't have any trouble going straight to Murtagh's mind.

1. The sword does not have to tied loosely for him to be able to swing it into his hand or to pick it up with his other hand.

2. He can take energy from the sword like Eragon can take energy from Aren and can use that to cast the spell. The energy for the spell would come from Oromis and as Oromis's energy was being drained he could regain the energy by taking energy from the sword no complicated wording is required.

3. a) Galby doesn't need to wait for thorn's eldunari to become bigger however he does need to maintain control over Murtagh so I think it's likely he took the Eldunari from thorn.

B) it is much harder to contact minds at a distance Eragon can barely sense Katrina inside Helegrind on the night before he attacks it let alone half-way across the Empire. Second if Galby can reach that far with his mind then why not just take control of Oromis's mind.

1. If something is tied to his hand, he cannot pick it up with another hand.
2. It takes magic just for Oromis to do day to day things and it would take a lot more when he would have to engage in strenuous activities without having to maintain a spell and it would have to be long oordind to bind the rope, sword, and hand together and word it right so if he loses his grip or has to let go he can without having to say another spell.
3. you underestimate Galby's power. He wouldn't need Thorn's Eldunari. He knows spells and has power beyond your reckoning. It wouldn't help him with an Eldunari so small that it can hold little power.

1. loop at one end the rope which goes through the sword handle, followed by a straight bit of rope followed by another loop this time around the wrist. Obviously both loops are tightened.

2. A) Complicated spells aren't a problem. there are some spells which are pages long and Oromis is one of the elves greatest spell makers. He can also right the spell down and check it for mistakes before saying it.

B) The sword would provide the energy for the wards not Oromis. By the way the sword has more energy in it then Aren.

3. No Galby wouldn't keep thorn's Eldunari to use as a power source, however he would keep it to maintain control over Murtagh. If I'm underestimating Galby's powers then surely having one more powerful eldunari matters even less to galby than his control over Murtagh.

He wouldn't need Thorn's Eldunari to have control over Murtagh. If you realized just how smart he is, just how much power he has, and what he is capable of then of course he wouldn't need it. Nothing happened to Thorn that would show Galby was inside their thoughts. He doesn't need Thorn to get to Murtagh.

1. You can't prove that we have no idea how Galby broke into Murtagh's mind as their inconstancies in the book about the reach of a mind.

2. You didn't answer why Galby wouldn't just attack Oromis's mind instead of Murtagh's.

3. Maintaining control over Murtagh is one of Galby's biggest priorities why not take thorn's eldunari as an extra precaution along with his other measures. There is no real disadvantage to Galby as he is already so powerful that waiting for thorn to mature and taking his eldunari then won't really enhance hiss powers significantly anyway.

1. I can't say whether either of our is right. Neither of them might be.

2. I think Galby didn't go after Oromis because he wanted to talk with him not control him and he already had control over Murtagh so it would be easier for him.

3. I don't think Galby would have to take the extra precautions. After letting Eragon go at the Burning Plains he would probably always watch to make sure he wasn't doing anything wrong and no we don't know how far a mind can go but we also stilldon't know how much magic Galby knows.

stop arguing about tying a sword to you its stupid. "lets agree to disagree" as Someone said in brisingr i think about sloan when Eragon was talking to izlandati (sp?).

i think that the vault of souls is just where galby keeps all of his stolen souls.

I think that helgrind means that he thinks the VoS is where Galby keeps all his eldunari.

lesion vault of souls/ heart of hearts has souls in them it says it there HoH is in the VoV

just think about heat of hearts have souls of lost dragons that is my point