Thats a great idea.

the young creatures of magic being powerfull happens with elves, not dragons. the ring is so precious because it shows that he is elf friend enough to walk with the elves, which is highly regarded. if saphira 1 was inside aren, i dont think brom would ever have let her out of his sight, and how would she get in there? also, shes dead, oromis saw that.

Uh, no. Dragons were powerful before the elves were, so their young are powerful as well. Dragons are the strongest magic users, but the only forms of magic they can use at will are their fire and flight. Their young are stronger than most adult elves in magic, but they just can't use it at any time.

how do aren, and how elves got their power link together? and the elves could already do magic, they just got long lives from the linking with the dragons, if they couldnt have done magic, the dragons would have pwnd them in the war.

He's right, elves could do magic before the war. But, they weren't very powerful, at least not compared to what they are now. That came from the link with dragons. Dragons gained civility and spoken (somewhat) language from the bond. Elves gained power and long lives.

I dunno, that's as close as I can remember, but somewhere in Eldest Oromis tells Eragon about what happened after the Bonding.

im almost on that part now so i will tell you after i get there.

uh. . Saphirarox, i finished it today and it said the elves were strong enough to be able to kill dragons with magic, and to destroy their eggs, that's pretty powerfull, cuz those things are hard.

Glaedr says that eldunari cannot reproduce and I thought we agreed the saphira 1 didn't have an eldunari or else Brom would know about it and spend his entire life trying to get it.

Right, so we formed a theory here. Brom secretly get he HOH and tells no-one about it except he tells Saphira (the new one) at the same time he tells her that he is Eragon's father and makes her swear in the ancient language not to tell anyone except with some clause that will allow Eragon to retrieve the HOH eventually. It's Plausible but there is a lot of ifs and overall I don't think it's very likely.

i agree with what you say

i think her eldunari was never disgorged, and brom doesnt have it if it was, eragon would have it already if that was the case, and brom would have told him to go straight to du weldenvarden with it and find elesmera

Uh, heh heh... I've been rereading the series these last couple weeks (waiting for my g-parents to call to get the modem replaced/fixed) and there's something that might explain why Brom didn't know about Saphira1's Eldunari. When either a dragon or it's Rider was injured and about to die, they were trained to close the mental link between them completely, to the point where they couldn't even feel each other's presence in their minds. This was to save the uninjured member of the pair unneccessary suffering from watching their pair bond die. (Which would be hard enough without having to feel their pain as well.)

Glaedr told Eragon and Saphira that this was to prevent the surviving member of the pair from going crazy, even though it didn't always work. But if Saphira1 did this and then transfered into her Eldunari afterwards, then Brom would not know about it.

He would have probably stayed near his dragon as she died rather than run off.

Yes, unless she died in midair or before she could disgorge her Eldunari.

If she died in mid-air it's likely the Brom would still be on her and that if the eldunari was disgorged in mid-air it would smash when it hit the ground unless someone caught it. Also Brom would probably notice it being disgorged. Finally in response to your second point if Saphira 1 died before she disgorged her Eldunari she would die, game over or whatever you want to call permanent irreversible death and the Eldunari will dissolve.

Nope, I just read the part in Brisingr yesterday about the Eldunari, and if a dragon dies before they disgorge their Eldunari, it only decays with the body if they haven't transferred into it. If they have, but die before they can disgorge it, it remains inside of them.

"If a dragon has done this, the Eldunari will outlast the decay of their flesh, and a dragon's essence may live on indefinitely. Also, a dragon can disgorge their Eldunari while they are still alive." -Glaedr, pg. 628

See, they can't move their muscles if they're dead, so how would they disgorge it? If she did die in the air, she wouldn't have disgorged it, because she knew it would break.

Thanks, BrisingrRaudhr!

Well, if she didn't tell Brom she transferred into it, and she wasn't able to disgorge it, I would assume it's where her body is.

I just had a thought, but I'm absolutely positive somebody has said this before...What if the Rider's are created again, and Eragon becomes their leader and stays on Doru Araeba... We've heard over and over how the Rider's were autonomous, so it wouldn't be part of Alagaesia. That means it would fit Angela's prophecy.


Yup, but how would Eragon go about finding her body? It could be anywhere on that island, and it's a pretty big island from the maps in the books.

that would be pretty awesome

Still, a dragon can cover a lot of area when they're flying, so if she was fighting in the air, she could have gone down anywhere on that island.

vroengard is the island duro areaba is the city.
yes it could be searched but what about the "monsters" that are on the island.

It could be regular animals, just a lot bigger than normal, like the Shrrg and Nagra in the Beor Mts. Besides, it's a deserted island that once belonged to the most powerful ppl in Alagaesia, there's bound to be tall tales.

Brom said that there were monster and he was a rider so i dont doubt it.

Yeah, I said this earlier, but anyway...Brom couldn't tell Eragon everything about the Riders because that would have made Eragon suspicious. How could a storyteller know so much about a group of people who were gone before he was born?

Brom told Eragon just enough that he could survive, with some tall tales thrown in to keep from having his cover blown.

And besides, Shrrg are dangerous even to a dragon Saphira's size. That makes them a monster in my book. I think the 'monsters' are just oversized animals.

i dont think that they are oversized animals. i think they are either of galbys making or spells gone wrong. maby Eragon's Guide to Alagaisia(a new book coming out soon)

Yeah, I've heard about that book. Any idea on the exact date it comes out?

Spells gone wrong...maybe. Galbatorix's creation...possible. I still think it's most likely big animals, lol. Anyway, between Eragon and Saphira (and possibly Arya and green dragon) they don't have to worry about monsters. Saphira could always bbq them, or Eragon could slice and dice them with Brisingr.

for some reson my computer wont let me go to the site. go [url]shurtugal.com[/url] to see how long it is untill it comes out.

Mmm, temperamental computer, what fun.

I'll look it up later. Right now it's like rapid fire topic replies.

What does that have to do with your computer jacking up? Lol, *clueless*


Hmmm....I just had a thought. What if Eragon finds Saphira1's Eldunari, and she tells him where to find the RoK and VoS?

that would be interesting although i dont see how she would know.

Well, she's been on that island for a long time. Maybe she found something by casting her mind out as far as she could. (You know, like Eragon and Saphira do when they're looking for each other.) Or she could have picked something up out of the minds of animals (or monsters ) around her.

I still think that if the 1st Saphira went into her Eldunari Brom would know about it and go after her. I mean Brom is not an idiot and would notice if saphira's conscious was still there after her body had crashed into the ground.

I dunno. We still don't know what happens when a Rider's dragon dies and their dragon is in their Eldunari. Maybe you have to be touching the Eldunari to sense them, even if it's their Rider. Or maybe since they had to cut the link between their minds to prevent each other unnecessary pain (see Eldest), he couldn't sense her go into the Eldunari, so he didn't look for it.


Actually, I just had a thought...What if Brom didn't even know about Eldunari before she died?

yea i guess so

i need 5 words apparantly

IE96, you are impossible to talk to.


But think about it...Oromis (or was it Glaedr?) told Eragon and Saphira that young Riders and dragons were not told about the true use of a dragon's Eldunari to keep young dragons from disgorging it just to please or impress their Rider. Brom's dragon Saphira died when she was young, we already know that, but we don't know how young she was, nor do we know how long they had been paired before she was killed. It's entirely possible that Oromis and Glaedr hadn't told Brom about the Eldunari before his dragon was killed. But Saphira1 would have known it was there and what is was for, so she could have transferred into it right before she died, and Brom would never have known.

When Brom fought the foresworn and lost his dragon he had already been trained. Also wouldn't he leave his mind open to sense those around him and eragon could still feel Glaedr's conscious from the HoH even when it was in the bag.

I'm not sure that Brom would leave his mind wide open during a fight with evil Riders. And remember, the Riders taught new Riders and dragons to cut the link between their minds when one was injured to the point of death, to try and save the sanity of the uninjured partner. (Not that it always worked...*coughgalbatorixcough*...) So Brom wouldn't have known, and he wouldn't have been able to sense her. After the fight he would have been mad with grief, so he wouldn't have taken down the barriers on his mind, and he still wouldn't have been able to sense her. Or maybe, even if it's your dragon, you still have to be touching the Eldunari to sense the dragon inside.

It's also possible that he did sense her, and just thought he was imagining it.

How was Saphira 1 killed? Was she in flight?

Well, when Brom was telling about her, he said she was killed in the fighting [u]over[/u] Doru Araeba, so I would assume she was flying.

Ok, I accept it is possible she would transfer into her Eldunari but why wouldn't she tell Brom if she had?

Not enough time maybe? Or maybe after they cut the link between them (E&S learn this in Eldest, tells why) she couldn't contact him. (They didn't destroy the link, they just closed it off completely.) So if their link was entirely closed off, there wouldn't have been anyway for her to tell him after her body died. (She couldn't roar to get his attention.)

She could jab Brom's mind with hers and he would have recognized her because all consciousness feel different even behind barriers.

Ok not to be whatever you think about this but i am lost.

How are you lost?


Well, you forget, at that time Brom would have been thinking that he'd just lost his dragon. He wouldn't be paying attention to someone trying to enter his mind. His grief would be enough to keep anyone at bay, because that would be all he was focused on. Even if he did recognize her mind, he'd probably think he was hallucinating.

Not to be a bit off topic but could eragon somehow contact broms soul using magic and i know the soul dies with the body but CP always seems to suprise us with some twists so could it be possible?

No it is not considering the mind/soul is no longer in alagaesia or anywhere it does not exist.

Ok i was just thiking and that popped into my head.

ya maybe but i thought this topic was on saphira 1s eldunari.

Most likely they don't and they are just guessing ; ) and thinking about this particular theory ...

ruben, I read your siggy, and you actually speak good english!!

No, we don't know for sure what is in the VoS, but we're making theories and going from there.

That's a good idea, but wouldn't the dragons souls vanish once whatever is connecting them to their Eldunari is gone?

And you don't know that it is a confined space. Just because it is called the Vault of Souls doesn't mean it is an actual vault.