I reread Brisingr this week and there is a part that makes me think that Saphira has transferred into her HoH. I can't find a direct quote (I can't even remember where to find it ), but it says something about how Eragon sensed a strange shift in her thoughts. That makes me think that Saphira moved her consciousness.

i dont think so.

Well, I remember how she and Eragon were talking about how they wished they could still talk to each other even when they're far apart, and then she blinked, and it said Eragon felt a strange shift in her thoughts. Wherever it was, I think it was before Glaedr told Eragon about the Eldunari. or she would have told him right there. Or she might even have disgorged it.

that makes a point. however it would make every1 opposed 2 galby more vulnerable because that would give galby a huge chip on his side if he got.

Not really, she hasn't disgorged it yet, so there's no chance of Galbatorix getting it. And it might actually be safer, because if you remember, Oromis told Eragon and Saphira that he and the Forsworn would torture a dragon's rider until they gave up their Eldunari. So if she has already disgorged it and given it to someone for safe-keeping, she wouldn't be able to give it to him.

o.k you win i agree that it is possible.

Lol, awesome. I just realized something, it's been just me and you debating about this for a while now. Where is everybody?

i know theres only 4 people that are very active you, thepoopkid, aluminumclock and me. we need to find a way to get more people on here
the guys at the shurtugal.com forums are jerks maby we can find a way to get the people over there to come here. Hmmm............

Hey! One of the eggs in your siggy has a hole in it!

I dunno, people get on, but they only post in a few topics. Like CoMe HeRe WhEn YoU ArE bOrEd and the games. Not a lot of rpg action anymore, either.

the egg is starting to hatch that is good.

how are we going to get them on here though? do you have any ideas?

Nope, I think we should start pming about this, otherwise they'll close the topic because we're getting off topic.

So...

Basically right now, the two of us agree that Saphira most likely did transfer into her Eldunari. Now if someone else will come in with an opinion...

two hatched! keep clicking so they grow.

anyhow you think that saphira transfered, while i said its possible.

I clicked on all...*counting*...six of them. How many are you planning on getting?

So for all intents and purposes, you agree. Even thinking it's possible is a form of agreement to me.

lol u guys are lucky a mod hasn't check tis u went so off topic lol

yeah im rereading Brisingr at the moment(not at that part) but it wud put them in serious danger but wud help the Varden contact them alot easier

Lol, it's not like I didn't at least try to stay on topic, Fin! *points at toke* *childish voice* It's his fault!! (Lol, jk, toke!)


Good, when you find it, plz come tell me what it says exactly. I still can't remember where it was.

i dont think it happened but agree that it may be possible

Just read that part this morning

I wouldn't mind being so far apart if only i could still touch your mind. Thats the worse part: The emptiness....
Saphira blinked and flicked out her tongue, and he sensed a strange shift in her emotions
What? He asked
i... I agree She blinked again

See? I'm not crazy, that part did actually happen, lol!

I really do believe that right there she transfered into her Eldunari.

It did say that he sensed a weird shift in her emotions. That was probably it right there.


I had a thought last night...What happens if a dragon's Eldunari is destroyed before their body dies?

i dont know but the book should say it if she did

Not if it's important to the plot for her to keep it secret until somewhere important in Book 4. Maybe she dies (she better not!!!!) and Eragon finds her Eldunari and they become that type of pairing...Indlvarn?? It was something like that. I remember Oromis and Glaedr talking about it with Eragon and Saphira.

1. If a dragon Hohs is destroyed and they transferred into it they die body or not.
2. I think that the strange shift in her emotions was because she knew a way they could still be togther but she couldn't tell Eragon so had to hide the info from him and that was the shift in emotions. A similar thing happens when Eragon learns Morsworn is his father except he isn't.

No, when Eragon and Saphira are talking about that after fighting Murtagh, she just looks away and didn't answer. He didn't sense anything like what he did with the shift.

Wow...That would suck...*Hey, what's this?* *Don't drop it!* *SMASH* *Glaedr?*...*Oh c-rap* (Not likely to happen, but still...)

His mind was still mostly closed after the battle he probably wasn't open enough to sense the emotions of Saphira just her thoughts. Remember Arya couldn't sense his presence after the fight.

True, but he had it open enough to talk to her, and they talk with emotions and pictures, as well as with words.

They choose to talk she could choose to block emotions also at that time they were communicating with words.

Even when they're talking with words they can feel each other's emotions. And she wouldn't be able to hide them quick enough for him not to sense something.

I just looked back at that conversation and their was no mention of emotions going across their mental link. Also Saphira's promise in the ancient language may have made her stop the emotions from crossing their link as it might allow Eragon to figure out Brom was his father and her oaths wouldn't have allowed that.

Off topic: you seem to behind all these really unlikely theories which are so obscure that there is little you can use to argue against them. It's really annoying.

*Looks it up* You're right, there is no mention of emotions, but just because they're not mentioned doesn't mean that Eragon and Saphira weren't aware of how the other was feeling right then.

You're right again, she didn't answer because of her oath's to Brom, but we already knew that. I don't think that Glaedr made her swear not to tell Eragon, I remember her saying that she never thought it was important enough to tell him about.

Off topic: Thanks ac! I'll take that as a compliment. It's a good thing to be able to think outside the box.

are you referring to the eldunari here because if you are they do have this conversation and Saphira half-heartly tries to conceal from Eragon that she hid her knowledge of the Eldunari from him however he finds out. Also she does swear not to tell Eragon about the Eldunari pg 629 " I wanted to, she growled, but as with Brom, I gave my word to Glaedr that I would speak of this to no one, not even you.

Yeah, I was talking about her Eldunari.

Hmm, then what page was that quote that Fin found?

You talking about the conversation where Eragon dosen't know about the Eldunari and Saphira does but can't tell Eragon and successfully hides her knowledge of it from him. It's after they find out that Eragon is going to Fathen Dur on pg 372

Yeah, right there is what made me think that she transferred. She could transfer into it, but without permission from Glaedr, she couldn't disgorge it, or even tell him.

Actually that raises a question I have been thinking about. When a Dragon puts in consciousness into it's Eldunari does it have to disgorge the Eldunari immediately or can it keep the Eldunari inside it's body?

It can stay in their body until they choose to disgorge it, even if they've already transferred into it.

Nup, maybe in book 4

Are you sure because i dont remember anything about that in the book. I mean disgorging the eldunari immediantly

Fattums? Plz tell us why...Posts that short are really annoying and more often than not, pointless.


@IE96: I just looked it up, and it doesn't come right out and say it, but neither does it say that they have to disgorge it immediately. It does say that the Eldunari can outlast the decay of a dragon's body, so that makes me think they don't have to disgorge it, but can still go into it and keep it inside their body.

what is fattums talking about can someone please help me understand. Does he mean no. Because that dosen't make any sense considering the question I asked. Plus why is he saying maybe in book 4. Does he mean we will get told the answer to my question in book 4 because I doubt the nature of the Eldunari will change.

*Ponders...*
*Gets it*
*decides to clear it up for everyone else*

He is responding to the subject it makes sense now even though it wasn't clear.

ie: Did Saphira transfer into her Eldunari?
answer: no but she may do in Book 4

Question: Why did I just type down my though processes?

Because you're crazy.


Ohhh...Yeah, it makes sense now, lol!


Random thought: Is there going to be a pic of an Eldunari in EGTA?

I wonder................ Hopefully but im not 100%

You wonder what? About an Eldunari pic? That would be awesome.


But we digress....



I think Saphira did go into her Eldunari. The place I think it happened was before they go back to Glaedr and Oromis, so Saphira would still have been bound by her oaths to not talk about it. Since she couldn't talk about it, she couldn't disgorge it and give it to Eragon.

You know what would ruin all of your theories. If a dragon had to disgorge there Eldunari when they transferred into it.

oK since AC is here im not sure what to say so he does not yell but i agree that would ruin the theories unless she disgorged it secretly.

Yeah, I know, but they don't, so I guess my theory is safe.

Sorry please ignore this post. I posted in the wrong topic so it made no sense so I edited it... and now it is this. Sorry

P.S IE96 I won't shout at you if you make good comments or ask a good question. For example I had no problems with you asking about whether Eldunari regenerate energy in another topic.

ok so i dont really have anything more to say so bye

Don't think so. Anyway, if she did who would she give it to? And what if Gal. got his hands on it??

She would give it to Eragon. And I would think that Eragon could place wards around it to keep Galbatorix or anybody working for him (willingly or not) from even touching it.

I doubt that Saphira transferred into her eldunari. Even if she did she would have given it to Eragon.

If Galby got his hands on Saphira's Eldunari no ward would protect it. Galby spent years breaking them down and he knows more magic than Eragon.

Saphira didn't. She told Eragon about hers, but never gave it to him. The only one that gave their eldunari up was Oromis's dragon. (Sorry, i forgot how to spell his name.)

I think she did tranfer her thoughts into the eldunari but she didn't disgorge it so there would be no point telling eragon and maybe she did it so that if she dies she could still be woth eragon and help him against the empire.

I agree with sblobby.

And I think Eragon is cunning enough to come up with a counterspell for the ward if Galby managed to find her Eldunari and break the wards around it. It doesn't matter how many words you know (although it helps) if you can manage to do tricky stuff with just a few. That's how Eragon used magic before he trained with Oromis and Glaedr.

Yes, but Galby has a lot more power than Eragon. It doesn't matter how many wards he placed on it, Galby could still break them and take the Eldunari while Eragon would be too tired to put any more wards on it. Also, I don't think she can transfer her thoughts into the Eldunari and still function in her body. It doesn't work like that.

Well gladear did (I know I spelled it wrong) and he was fine. Maybe eragon will descover Galbatorix's true name and use it against him to overcome him and use galbatorix to set all the dragons free

Yes, Glaedr did but his Eldunari also wasn't in his body anymore and he didn't exactly transfer his thoughts into he can just use it to communicate. If he had transferred his thoughts into it he wouldn't have a body.

No, he transfered his soul into it. That includes his thoughts. And dragons didn't have to disgorge their Eldunari to transfer into it. If she has transfered into it she'll most likely wait to tell Eragon about it and disgorge it until she absolutely has to. (Like if they have to split up for an extended period of time again.)

Saphira would never disengorge hers. They always talk about how to be a good dragon and rider they have to learn to function without each other and she knows how dangerous it would be to disengorge hers. She isn't stupid.

And Saphira and Eragon are both strong enough to go a time without each other.

However, if Saphira has no choice but to do so, they would have to find a way to hide it;s power form Galbatorix.

they woul probably hide it with the elves

I think we've beat the subject of Galby getting ahold of it to death...

And they know they can function without each other now, so she can go ahead an disgorge it. I believe that was a training thing. Remember when Glaedr had them close their minds off to each other completely? Something like that. But now they know they can handle it, so there wouldn't be a reason for her not to give it to him. Although, as I said earlier, she will most likely keep it until it is absolutely neccessary for her to give it to Eragon so as not to risk anything happening to it.

They wouldn't give it the elves because only the queen and Oromis knew about Eldunari and neither of them can keep it. They would still have to do things without each other not just as training and Saphira would/lt do something as serious as as disengorge her heart just to ease her worriness. Like I have said before, Saphira is not stupid.

there must be no other choice for her then if she does give up her eldunari. They would risk getting caught. And they also have glaedr's HoH to worry about.

Thats is another good point. I think they'lll be too worried about Glaedr.

Glaedr has so much power, I'm surprised Galby didn't notice it yet.

Its because he never considered the elves a threat and never left his castle. Plus, I'm sure Oromis placed protective wards over both of them.

I'm not sure Oromis had time to place wards on Glaedr's HoH because he regurgitated it up straight into Eragon's arms and then they left. Eragon will have placed wards on it by now, although I'm not sure he can keep Galby from sensing it.

I think Saphira has already tranferred into her Eldunari, but like I said earlier, she will probably wait until she has no other choice and then disgorge it. She might even choose to disgorge it before they fight Galby so he can't capture Eragon and threaten to kill him if she doesn't give it to him.

What I meant was is that Oromis may have placed wards on themselves not on Glaedr's HoH but on Glaedr and himself so Galby could never see him. Like what the dwarf priest gave to Eragon so no one could ever scry him.

Then that wouldn't extend to his Eldunari...

Hmm... Is it even possible to place a spell on an Eldunari when it is still inside a dragon? *ponders*

I don't see why not.

The problem is, it seems to simple. If you could, surely the old Riders would have warded the Eldunari of their dragons (those that still had one inside of them) against Galbatorix forcing them to give it to him. But we know for sure that he forced some of them to give theirs up by threatening to kill their Riders.

i think he also killed the dragons and removed the eldunari from their bodies, but only the ones that he knew had transfered into theirs already.

Well threatening the riders wouldn't have anything to do with putting wards on the Eldunari, he would still be able to threaten the riders. I don't think they put wards on them because they were sure that they were safe.

well, they are indestructable. besides. they probably didnt know the true power they held within.

It does make sense that they would ward them when they learned what Galbatorix was up to.

Eldunari are not indestructible far from it they can be smashed. Some dragons even smash their own if their rider dies. (Obviously I'm talking about a dragon with control over it's body here.)

Actually they can break their own even if they don't have a body. They have to use magic to do it though, so it wasn't very common. Or so Oromis and Glaedr said.

Also, they could have someone break it for them.

But if a dragon dies without giving up its eldunari, doesn't it disintegrate witht he rest of them?

It only disintigrates if he hasn't transferred into it. That's why it's possible that Saphira's namesake transferred into her's before she died at Doru Araeba. But that's a different topic. Glaedr told Eragon and Saphira that sometimes a dragon would freak out when they were about to die and transfer on accident.

But I think that that part in Brisingr is where Saphira transferred into hers. I believe that she'll hold onto it until the last minute, to keep it safe and then she'll give it to Eragon.

I just had a thought. She could give it to Eragon when they go to fight galby so that they can still communicate without him having to leave part of his mind open. (Which would make it easier for galby to break into his mind and take control of him.)

The Menoa tree probably doesn't even know about the Eldunari and if she had taken it Saphira would have felt pain not Eragon and she would have noticed.

Yeah, Eragon felt a sort of nudge in his midriff when the Menoa tree took whatever it was she wanted. Personally, I think she took his ability to have children.

I wonder if you could shatter an Eldunari with a Rider's sword? I'm pretty sure they're to hard to do that to, but I'm not sure. I've only ever heard about them being broken with magic. Or dragons convincing Rider's to smash them, but it never said how the Rider's smashed them.

Maybe if you shatter the eldunari near the deathplace of the dragon the magic can reconstruct the body and the dragon can reinhabit it, because they aren't dead yet.

When you go into an Eldunari for all purposes they are dead. Their mind is still active but nothing else. They wouldn't be able to make a new body.

Technically their not dead though. Can't magic create stuff?

Yes, but I don't think it's possible to create a whole huge being out of nothing.

well, maybe all the old dust from the decomposed bodies could be used. just an idea really.

I don't know though because any old dust if any would be gone. Most dragons died in battle and were probably buried or whatever they did to the dead. A form of cremation maybe.

That's actually a really creative idea, though. But if you shatter an Eldunari with a dragon's soul and mind inside it, the dragon will die. I'm not sure what happens if the dragon's body is still alive and it's Eldunari is broken though....

I would hope that they could go back into their bodies.

If they could, there would be so many dragons, that if galby isnt defeated yet, then all the dragons will help to defeat him.

but doesn't he have all the eldunari? Then they wouldnt be broken.